Mormon Truth Uncensored #4-Van Hale And The Historicity Of The Book Of Mormon
"I'm not persuaded that the Book of Mormon is a translation of an ancient history." - Van Hale-September 18, 2005
"I am not persuaded that the detail in the Book of Mormon is detail pertaining to people that anciently lived on the Americas."- Van Hale-September 18, 2005
"Well, my point of view regarding the plates is that the plates did exist, that they were delivered to Joseph Smith by an angel and they were shown to witnesses of the Book of Mormon and that gave them something tangible to testify about, that they had seen the plates and handled them but I don't think that Joseph Smith was, that the Book of Mormon relates to anything that was on the plates. It was, I don't know what word to use to, without, without it sounding crude, but uh, the only word I can think of is the idea of a prop."-Van Hale-September 18, 2005
This podcast deals with the Mormon apologist/talk show host Van Hale and his views on what exactly the Book of Mormon is, since he believes that it is not an actual history of the people that lived in ancient America, which is what the Mormon Hierarchy have taught and believed since 1830. I sent him an Email during the show on Sunday and he only read the first 3 lines and was amazed and astonished at my inability to comprehend what he had actually said earlier in the show.
So, in this podcast, I will read the rest of the Email that I sent him, that he didn't read and let you hear for yourself, what he actually said, that prompted my Email and you can all decide for yourselves, what he said, versus what Van Hale thinks he said.
But, to say that the historicity of the BOM isn't "emphasized" by the Mormon Hierarchy, which would include being taught in seminary, in Sunday School, institute classes, in General Conferences, in Ensigns, by missionaries and the BOM itself, is a flat out lie and deception by Van Hale. The Church does emphasize it and always has, in all of the places I just mentioned above. What is the purpose of FARMS, now officially part of BYU since 1997, thanks to Hinckley?
It is so amazing that Van Hale, actually believes that the "golden plates" were just a "prop", to have something tangible for the witnesses of the BOM to see and feel. Wow, that would be outright deceit, by Joseph Smith and the Mormon God, wouldn't it? I guess we are back to lying for the Lord again, aren't we? I don't even think that Daniel Peterson would dare take it that far and he's about as bad as it gets with the Apologetics, or so I thought.
Van Hale doesn't believe that what is contained in the BOM, has anything to do with what was on the plates. Amazing, I know, but this is how far his beliefs have slipped into very deep cognitive dissonance, in order to keep his testimony of the Mormon Church.
Randy Jordan called his understanding of what is contained in the BOM(as you can clearly see from above), as "inspired fiction", which Van Hale then refuted and asked Randy, "do you not think that you have the ethical obligation to be accurate?" I think Randy Jordan nailed it perfectly!!
I mean, this Van Hale guy is ridiculous!! I don't even think that he knows or remembers what comes out of his own mouth and if he does, doesn't comprehend what it means, because he uses apologetics on himself and his own words, while everyone else can see right through him and his words. As screwed up as the beliefs of Mormonism are, Van Hale's understanding of these screwed up beliefs, is beyond belief and takes it all to a whole new level.
Let me get this straight, Grant Palmer gets called to a "court of love" and disfellowshipped after about 6 hours, for writing a book exposing Mormonism(including the falsity of the BOM), which the Church sells for 2 years in Jesus' personal bookstore(Deseret Book) and which they still sell in the BYU bookstore(which is part of Jesus' one and only true and living university); and Van Hale can say whatever he wants about anything to do with Mormon Doctrine(even that the book of Mormon is not historic) and nothing happens to him?
On February 6, 2005 , Van Hale released his "official statement" of what he believes the Book of Mormon is and it is an interesting read for those that are interested in reading the deepest depths of Mormon cognitive dissonance.
There is something strange going on with this Van Hale situation and maybe it's just the typical hypocritical BS that always goes on within Mormonism, as it just always depends on who you know and whose palms are getting greased. Van Hale used to have access to the vaults, pre-Mark Hoffman, so who knows? I'm sure he knows way more than he would ever tell us.
I then discuss the "official position" that the Mormon Hierarchy takes on the Book of Mormon historicity and Deconstructor also has done a great page on this, with most of the same quotes. Simply put; you cannot be a good, upstanding, true believing member of the Church and be allowed to openly have the opinion that Van Hale has of the Book of Mormon. Many others, that have had this very opinion, have been either excommunicated or disfellowshipped. I just want to know how Van Hale gets away with it, while others are punished.
On Mormon.org(official Mormon website), on the page where non-members go to order a free Book of Mormon, to find out just what the hell it is, it says:
The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, is a record of God's dealings with the inhabitants of ancient America.
The Title page of the Book of Mormon says:
The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites.
The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.
The crowning event recorded in the Book of Mormon is the personal ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ among the Nephites soon after his resurrection. It puts forth the doctrines of the gospel, outlines the plan of salvation, and tells men what they must do to gain peace in this life and eternal salvation in the life to come.
After Mormon completed his writings, he delivered the account to his son Moroni, who added a few words of his own and hid up the plates in the hill Cumorah. On September 21, 1823, the same Moroni, then a glorified, resurrected being, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and instructed him relative to the ancient record and its destined translation into the English language.
So, you guys tell me, does the introduction page in the Book of Mormon, make it sound like an "ACTUAL HISTORY OF ANCIENT INHABITANTS OF AMERICA, THAT ARE THE PRINCIPAL ANCESTORS OF AMERICAN INDIANS?" Sorry Van Hale, my misunderstanding I guess!!
I ask again, how is Van Hale able to get away with this, while Simon Southerton and Brent Metcalfe get excommunicated for espousing similar views and Grant Palmer was disfellowshipped? Your guess is as good as mine, but there can be no doubt what the Church emphasizes regarding the BOM, since it is right on the introduction page of the Book of Mormon. To say otherwise is deceitful, a lie and completely ridiculous and absurd.
Enjoy everyone and please leave your comments!!
Samuel the Utahnite